Richard Hawley

I took a party of our 6th formers to France and Belgium to visit various World War One sites - very sobering indeed and difficult still to gauge the extent of the death - so many memorials with so many names of the missing.







More here - http://www.flickr.com/photos/efsb/sets/72157603883165181/

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http://www.nickbarberphotography.co.uk

Those are really poignant pictures. In fact, you've inspired me to get out my poetry books and read a bit of Rupert Brooke and Wilfred Owen. That's two cultural inspirations from the forum two day - poetry and classical music

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Always be a first rate version of yourself, instead of a second rate version of somebody else (Judy Garland)

Nice pictures efsb. It certainly is an interesting place. I went last year as part of a photographic project and I was amazed at the atmosphere that still remained after 90 odd years.

Here's some of my pics from my trip FWIW

http://www.hyde-end.com/Slideshows/fmp/

Cheers,


Simon

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Thread Killer

Those are superb - I really like your composition and use of colour. I was quite pleased with what I managed to get in and amongst the snap-shots and the need to get photos to put up in the 6th form college back home, but I would have loved to have had a bit more time, rather than shoot everything off the cuff.

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http://www.nickbarberphotography.co.uk

The scale of loss during both wars was tremendous. I think everyone should be made to watch the last episode of Black Adder Goes Forth for that mega-poignant ending that really makes you stop and think, and Schindler's List for what was done to fellow man during the second world war.

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There's a raven in the distance, his inscription's all around you, you can't hide

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Agreed - everyone should be made to watch that episode, I choke up and cry every time I see it.

I will never ever understand Man's inhumanity to Man

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j x

There are 2 DVD sets that are well worth getting

'The Great War' - a series done in the 1960s about WWI and has not been bettered. It interviews blokes who survived the trenches. Pretty horrific, but shows it for what it was.

'The World at War' - about WWII; the series from the early '70's. Again, it's so hard to improve on such a thorough and in-depth box set. Some of the footage should be mandatory in school lessons.

I did my degree in Modern History, but these days, I have trouble getting through old footage like that without weeping.



I remember seeing a programme about a French Farmer ploughing his field and uncovering a hole where some steps led downwards. They got a few experts to excavate it - it turned out to be part of a British underground explosive mine laying network. They'd tunnel under the German trenches and pack it with TNT. Then detonate it. The Germans were doing exactly the same to the Allies btw.....

Like this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPGrrnpzB_Y


The immediate area was still in good nick - down below, they discovered bullets embedded in the wooden props holding the roof up. They came to the conclusion that the German tunnel crews had broken into the British tunnels and an underground battle had taken place - though it was a fairly common event. Tunnels were often dug deliberately to catch the opposition out before they could detonate explosives - the British Army recruited many tunnel diggers from the then-new London Underground rail system (aka 'claykickers')

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I studied Modern History at school in the '70's, the World at War was on at the same time. I agree it should be mandatory in schools, it made a big impact on me. It is so difficult to imagine the scale of both WWI & WWII. We shouldn't forget.

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Love is so hard to find
And even harder to define

Sounds like the subway system that was going on under the Vimy Ridge - apparently between 20 and 30 people are killed each year from munitions still in the ground and 200 tons of the stuff is dug up each year, with the whole lot unlikely to be cleared until 2025. The farmers put sheep on the fields that they daren't plough, too. Many fields are still surrounded by electric fences and have warning notices. It was quite shocking to see how a nearly 100 year old war is still affecting lives today.

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This sounds fascinating - but dangerous too.......

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7246038.stm

There's been some footage on BBC News 24 about this - I hope they keep returning to monitor progress on the excavations.

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My Granda was part of the D-Day landings and he always refused to talk about his war days when I was young. Sadly he died before I could ask him all the questions I had - but I find that period of history extremely interesting and it is vital that we keep the memory fresh for future generations. What is that old saying.. something like - those who refuse to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it?

Beautifully poignant photos.

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Hmm....

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Like the current crop of sorry bastards we have elected. And the crop of complete bastards that were elected before them.

'a man kills a man in the heat of an argument and he's a murderer. Give him a gun and march him off to war and he's a bloody hero' - can't remember who said that. Possibly Spike Milligan.


Politicians are responsible for those poor souls that lie in acres of white stoned graveyards in France. Whilst they dined with fine wine, people - in fact volunteers, like my Great Grandfather were being shot at and forced to live in shite. He came back from Passchendaele with a steel plate in his head.

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Thought I'd just share some literature on WWI with folk - personally think Pat Barker's regeneration trilogy is fabulous, very powerful ... and also Sebastian Faulke's Birdsong.

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The way your face could light the bitter dark of every street
In every town I'll ever go

I have a book on Douglas Haig by John Terraine. Haven't started it yet though.

For someone who has been damned for the past 90 years, it'll be interesting to read a more balanced account.

I remember during my studies discussing David Lloyd George's hatred for Haig, of which he wrote about in his War diaries and memoirs published around 1930 - and is perhaps responsible for the current feeling about the man. Historians like Terraine are re-assessing Haig's role in the context of the bloody great mess that was WWI

Whilst on the western front, Haig was starved of men and munitions by Lloyd George who wanted to open up the eastern front - he diverted time effort and armaments away from France - and was about to hand complete control to the French, who were in a worse state than the British. Stuff like that isn't often mentioned - history is written by the victors and elaborated by ex Prime Ministers like Lloyd George.

Lloyd George was an incredibly good self publicist with an ego the size of the Titanic, however he was a much better PM than his predecessor Herbert Asquith. L.G certainly got things done quicker and more efficiantly and ended with a 'favourable' result in 1918 but still..........

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