Richard Hawley

Richard Hawley Forum
It is currently Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:51 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:28 am 
Offline
The Boss
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 30, 2003 9:54 am
Posts: 18672
Location: Sheffield
Longpigsdad wrote:
Richard Hawley wrote:
Longpigsdad wrote:
It is easy to get emotional about these matters as Firemen do a highly dangerous and important job but, ultimately supporting services like the Fire Brigade is like insurance. The less likely the risk the less insurance cover you need. There must have been careful consideration going into the decision to close the Stations involved and it wouldn't have been all about costs although, I doubt many on this Forum will see that.

Stepping back from the individuals and historic buildings concerned we should acknowledge the world is changing and not everything (unfortunately) stays the same.



So can you be quoted on this if,god forbid,your house is on fire and your screaming for help on the roof?


I have been caught in a house fire, at 3.00 am in the morning actually. The brigade did a sterling job but that doesn't alter the fact that like all services they are a cost and better management of resources is called for in these difficult times. Risk Vs. Cost must always be a factor.


So to be clear your saying that lives aren't as important as money?I am a little confused could you clarify please

_________________
now,then!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 2:02 pm 
Offline
Geordie Admin Dominatrix
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:46 pm
Posts: 5622
Location: Up my own arse
Based on what I know about how public funding is spent ( and believe me I know) I'm confident that there won't have been much of a risk based investigation. All about cost cutting, and when there's a full blown tragedy because we don't have enough fire fighters there'll be some private company waiting in the wings to come in and take over.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:01 pm 
Offline
The Boss
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 30, 2003 9:54 am
Posts: 18672
Location: Sheffield
Exactly,I worry very much about the blind rabid rush to privatisation,how can they be anywhere near as good as our fire services?.....i personally believe that health,education,public services like the fire brigade and ambulances along with our armed forces too should be ring fenced by law and they CAN'T be touched by nasty little greedy politicians and their grubby and ill thought out ideas forever....these people are the real heroes in our society and they get shat on by business men politicians it makes me so angry that they aren't given a decent wage rise

_________________
now,then!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:22 pm 
Offline
Hawleytastic!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:07 am
Posts: 2658
Location: Stoke-on-Trent
Just got back from ten days in Germany, where, amongst other things I visited the local fire station in Dahn - it's run by volunteers, but they have several engines worth about 4 million Euros. They do lots of public service things (draining flooded basements, rescuing climbers etc) and are held in the highest esteem in the community. Nobody would dare suggest that they didn't deserve every penny they got. The guy who showed us round, who was the father of one of our exchange pupils was greeted with huge respect everywhere he went with us. Quite right too.
Image

_________________
http://www.nickbarberphotography.co.uk


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:54 am 
Offline
Hawleytastic!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:33 am
Posts: 1536
Location: Standing at the door of the Pink Flamingo ...
So to be clear your saying that lives aren't as important as money?I am a little confused could you clarify please[/quote]

Of course I do not, that’s nonsense! The typical rhetoric that people with no accountability, responsibility, influence or detailed knowledge spout on such matters that are perceived to impact on peoples well-being. I don’t believe for one second that Fire Chiefs would propose changes (despite immense from Government) if they believed there was a significant risk to the public. Their role after all is to preserve life.
The point I was trying to make earlier is that you need to resource at the optimum levels to provide the required service. Making better use of resources often results in numbers of workers reducing but this should only happen if service levels are unaffected.
In my career I spent over 30 years in public sector organisations, operating at all levels so I am well qualified to comment on how they function. I also had strong links with several other public sector organisations that operated in a similar manner and had a similar culture.
My over-riding position on the Fire Service and NHS in particular is that we need to strengthen the front-line and remove the layers of management in these archaic structures. Fire fighters and nurses should be the focus not the multi-layers of management and scores of admin staff collecting and collating data that prove how good/bad their organisations are and how expensive they are to run. Personnel on the “shop floor” need to be empowered to be accountable for what they do and reduce the “command and control” culture (with its crippling bureaucracy) that exists.

_________________
Woke this morning and I got myself a beer ............


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:59 am 
Offline
Hawleytastic!

Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:56 am
Posts: 2638
Location: London
Appreciated that you have experience – it's just that you have drawn different conclusions from me. I have 20 years of experience as a public sector trade unionist so am also qualified to have an opinion too. You do not empower people by attacking front line pay and pensions – none of these cuts are about reducing layers of management, they are about attacking pay and conditions of front-line staff and belittling the organisations they elect to represent them.

The reputation of firefighters has been rubbished by this government – firefighters have accountability, responsibility and detailed knowledge – they do the job, they are accountable because they are saving lives and property and they have the greatest responsibility of all, for life and death. However, they have little influence because what the front line staff say is being ignored and rubbished by government ministers who have barely worked a proper job in their lives, outside the Westminister political bubble, let alone had to be responsible for others and their workmates' lives.

You might find this emotive but I personally know quite a lot of firefighters through my day to day work and they all, to a man and woman, are behind this action and oppose what the government is doing. That is fact not conjecture. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but some people's views are more valid that others. Myself, I tend to listen to those who do the job, and I know what they're saying.

The point that Maggie makes about the private sector is also bang on. When the government don't fund the health service enough and services fail, they'll pay their mates to step into the breach. They're setting our services up to fail so their friends can profit. Look at inner city GP practices, that are forced to become private businesses but are not being funded enough to treat the patients on their books.

When the surgeries go bust, who steps in? Private medical companies whose board members read like a who's who of the Tory party. It's immoral, it's wrong and right minded people should fight it tooth and nail. x


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:16 pm 
Offline
The Boss
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 30, 2003 9:54 am
Posts: 18672
Location: Sheffield
Exactly I totally agree about stripping layers of management back,public bodies are plagued with them.....my Grandmother,mother,Aunts,wife and now my daughter worked/will work as nurses for the NHS and I've heard all about it my entire life,the strikes aren't about management at all they are about a decent wage rise that even vaguely goes in line with inflation I really feel for them all,my dear friends and neighbours and my sister are teachers and I hear how shittily they are treated and feel undermined and undervalued its simply just not right....but lastly I'm sorry if I offended you longpigs dad ..>

_________________
now,then!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:27 am 
Offline
I need a life
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:35 am
Posts: 842
Location: Oz
It's so sad to continually have to read about these stories of "conservative ideology" run wild - constant cutting of important public services (which should be public) for "the bottom line" (more likely political ideology). It is happening here in Australia too where the economic situation is not nearly as bad (we aren't even in recession and while there is some debt its certainly nowhere near European levels) - somehow we elected the devil spawn of conservatives as prime minister (and possibly the biggest twat to walk the planet even counting some of Britain's worst numpties)

When I was over in London I worked for a little while with the wonderful people at 38 Degrees and we did a lot of work to TRY and save the NHS amongst other things - as an aussie living over there, it was comforting to know when i got sick and not making much money that I could go to the doctor and not have to pay through the nose for the privilege unlike when i went to New York, got thrown into a glass door which cut the back of my neck and I didn't go to hospital or the doctors because it would be ridiculously expensive.

People like 38 Degrees (not just because I worked for them) are so important in this day and age in giving a voice to people to hold the government accountable and say we don't want this - if they acted like reasonable human beings we could congratulate them with the same enthusiasm too maybe... :shock: :*: :roll:

_________________
The sound of loneliness makes me happier


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:32 am 
Offline
The Boss
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 30, 2003 9:54 am
Posts: 18672
Location: Sheffield
I agree mate 38 degrees are doing good work as are the avaaz lot too ..>

_________________
now,then!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:01 pm 
Offline
Hawleytastic!

Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:56 am
Posts: 2638
Location: London
Righteously true Dj. People can make a difference by protesting, however they do it. And the 38 degrees bods are blazing a good trail. We have an NHS while there are folks to fight for it, to paraphrase a great man. Standing up for what you believe isn't just something our forefathers did, it's something that we have to do if we don't want to condemn our children back to an age where social progress exists for the rich and the rest of us can be written off. I shall be on picket duty on Thursday and after, I will be paying my usual visit to my local fire station for a cuppa and some cake, baked in bulk by my mum, 82 but with enough fight in her for the lot of us. With or without the cake, I'd urge people to go, they will be pleased to see you (and they make good tea). Xx


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:28 am 
Offline
Too much time on my hands

Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:03 pm
Posts: 561
Location: South Yorkshire
Big support to all those on strike today. If we don't stand up for what we believe is right and just and just accept those in power know best then there is no hope for us as a society. Keep fighting and keep believing we can influence change for the better. X

_________________
up the Owls


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:14 am 
Offline
The Boss
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 30, 2003 9:54 am
Posts: 18672
Location: Sheffield
And Up the Owls

_________________
now,then!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:03 pm 
Offline
Too much time on my hands

Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:03 pm
Posts: 561
Location: South Yorkshire
Too right! And if they keep fighting we can keep believing. Keep the faith.

_________________
up the Owls


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:35 am 
Offline
Too much time on my hands

Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2003 10:23 pm
Posts: 783
Are most of your fire fighters in the UK paid professionals? In this area, many of the non-city firehouses are staffed with volunteers, which has always been mind-blowing to me, even from a young age. In the town where I grew up, many of the fathers were professional firefighters who commuted to New York, and others, who had local jobs, were volunteers. A big feature of the summer would be the fireman's fairs/carnivals.

I've had my quibbles with various police (met the best and the worst), but firefighters are on another level from the rest of us.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:13 pm 
Offline
Too much time on my hands
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:11 pm
Posts: 540
Location: South East
"Government budget cuts have meant over 5000 UK firefighters being axed, 39 fire stations closed & emergency response times significantly increasing. Lives are being lost as a result so why are the mainstream media not covering this? "



http://youtu.be/n8sgxsS4T0c

_________________
http://www.myspace.com/shambolic-charm


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group