Richard Hawley

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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:16 pm 
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I don't believe closing the Gap between rich and poor is outdated. I believe it is a necessity towards having low crime and a healthy happy society.

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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:31 pm 
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article in today's independent

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-what-well-lose-if-we-reject-labour-1964247.html

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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:32 pm 
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Longpigsdad wrote:
We need a Government that encourages self-reliance and entrepreneurial skills but maintaining standards of care for those that genuinely cannot help themselves.


I disagree with almost everything you say. It's a bit of a theme at the moment, saying it's old fashioned to hark back to some kind of Old Labour values, to want trade unions that have rights, to aspire to decent standards for those who work and those who don't. Wasn't that all a bit out-dated, something that needed a radical overhaul.
But I don't think much has fundamentally changed – the gap between rich and poor is wider than it's ever been, most of the world lives in destitution and crushing, life limiting poverty and we're facing a massive environmental crisis that may change our world forever. Don't see entrepreneurial skills and self-reliance making much of difference to that – just seems to be a bit of a manifesto for self interest rather than an idea for making the world a better place. x


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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:33 pm 
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Shambolic Charm wrote:
I don't believe closing the Gap between rich and poor is outdated. I believe it is a necessity towards having low crime and a healthy happy society.


i agree

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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 2:03 pm 
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beaux nidle wrote:


Ha! I just logged on to post that exact link. He's a very good writer and always brings perspective and intelligence to his analysis.

Sorry Longpigsdad, you are just wrong in your analysis as far as I am concerned. Yes, the world has changed but the old values of Labour are very much real ones and relevant to the modern world. We certainly can't trust the party who are advocating “people taking responsibility for their own futures rather than hiding in public sector organisations or huge manufacturing companies, propped up by the state. We need a Government that encourages self-reliance and entrepreneurial skills”


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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 2:10 pm 
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We're all fucked. I think they're all lying about the state of the economy and we're in the same boat as Greece. Europe in general is heading for meltdown if you ask me, so start preparing them molotov cocktails!

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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 2:58 pm 
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the shed is rammed with em

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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 5:08 pm 
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I'm glad my earlier post was well received! To be fair it was somewhat tongue in cheek but I do get a little fed up hearing there are no alternative considerations for running a Governrnent than a Labour Party that nobody likes anymore (on this forum anyway!).
My comment made about "self-reliance" is that people should be more responsible for themselves. It's not new. My granddfather was struggling to bring up his family in the 1920's on 2 or 3 days work a week so he moved from Somerset to the East Midlands to find full time work. My paternal Great Granddfather moved from the Black Country for similiar reasons. Their otions were perhaps less then than now. Today we have an option to sit on our fingers, blame the cruel world and draw our benefits waiting to be found something. My youngest son lost his job and decided to start his own business. He does this whilst also working in a low paid job until his business flourishes, which it will because he works at it. He didn't play the "victim" card, he got on with life.
My other comment about "entreprenaurs" was intended to mean because big organisations have largely gone and small businesses now account for the highest number of employees we need them to find ways of generating successful businesses. This is both good for the economy and jobs. Making money is not wrong - making excessive profit at the expense of those who cannot afford is. Unless we re-nationalise our utiliities companies or become a third world nation (i.e. a cheap labour-base) manufacturing and massive organisations will not return. It's a sad, but realistic view.

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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 5:13 pm 
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your entitled to your opinion mate i sort of know what you mean but it does sound a little like Norman tebbit saying"get on yer bike"to me,i think a government should look after its people i despair at the time devoted to money making as a goal in itself and not a means to an end......

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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 5:30 pm 
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Longpigsdad wrote:
Unless we re-nationalise our utiliities companies


Now there's an idea..

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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 5:45 pm 
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snapper wrote:
Longpigsdad wrote:
Unless we re-nationalise our utiliities companies


Now there's an idea..


I am not sure that we could turn the clock back for everything but the idea of gaining control of these critical assets and services and have integrated policies for the good of the nation and not just profiteering would be a good thing. I guess that having broken these organisations up the chance to start again with a clean slate and business-like management it might just work ...... :?:

Is it too late for Labour to amend thier manifesto?

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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 6:03 pm 
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Richard Hawley wrote:
t does sound a little like Norman tebbit saying"get on yer bike"to me


To me, he personified what was wrong with Thatcherism, probably more than the woman herself. If you look back at half the problems people talk about on this forum – crime, kids stealing cars and driving them at a hundred miles an hour down the street, anti-social behaviour, parents not setting out rules for their kids – you can lay much of the blame at his door. Once you talk about there being no society, and the rights of the individual, and people uprooting themselves and their families to chase any old job, no matter where it is, is it any wonder that you have large groups of people who've been brought up to not care about society or their community, to only be bothered about themselves and looking out for number one.
The thing is the Tories last time fucked up a generation and we're still all suffering the consequences.


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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 7:24 pm 
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Dave wrote:
Europe in general is heading for meltdown if you ask me, so start preparing them molotov cocktails!


Wahay cocktail party time!


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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 3:59 am 
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I'm watching your election results with interest here in Canada, not least since we inherited our parliamentary system from you, but mostly since we BOTH have Conservative parties whose policies suck crusty ass! It seems so far that you'll end up with the same thing we currently have: a Con. minority. I thank the Maker that it's just a minority, because that way our PM Stephen Harper is limited in the damage he can inflict, and I hope it's the same case with Cameron (although it seems that if there's no majority the PM who held the seat last still gets first chance to form the gov't in your parts).

Another thing we have in common is that, along with the U.S. and India, we are the only countries in the world that still practice first-past-the-post voting, which is suitable if there are only TWO candidates in a riding. While I understand that your Labour Party is a bitter disappointment and has been for some time, you can't argue with the math: You're much more likely to help the Tories by voting anything other than Labour.

That Hari piece made a powerful point: You can't just vote in general elections every few years and expect things to get better; you've got to get off your ass and work for changes all the time in between.

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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 8:05 am 
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We're fucked. Now we have weeks of fucking schoolyard bickering, deals behind closed doors, cock after cock after cock on TV telling us they only want whats best for the country......bollocks!! I'm telling ya, there'll be fucking riots before long!!!

Well done to the British public for letting the greasy Tory bastards back into power!! :roll:

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